[She can relate to that intellectually, at least. The nod of her head is much more understanding this time.]

I mean-- it's different, I think, when it's an aunt and uncle. Whenever Aunt Debbie says they'd be disappointed, it's still-- removed.

[Thankfully, it had taken Debbie years to realize that invoking her brother's disappointment was a much more successful strategy.]

Yours have to be proud, though. Mr American Dream.